On Pondering Sweet November

A few weeks ago I watched the movie, Sweet November, with Keanu Reeves and Charlize Theron. Theron was terminally ill with cancer  but Reeves didn't realize this for quite some time and had gradually come to fall in love with her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_November_(2001_film)

As a result of watching the film, I began wondering and reflecting on what it is within ourselves or within certain individuals which would compel them to stay with a person who they had just met or known for a little while, after having found out that they were going to die.
I began questioning myself. Would i be capable of doing this?

What kind of a person could be/would be capable of sacrificing his/her  happiness knowing that this person who they have fallen in love with would soon be dead, already knowing or at least intuiting the pain and loss which they would come to experience shortly?

What is it which would hold that person bound to another who they barely really knew but who they already were in love with who would shortly be gone out of his/her life - whether it be one month, two months, six months?

What is it within us as human beings which would make the decision to BE THERE for another for such a short time knowing what we would go through afterwards?

What is it within us human beings which would decide for us, after deliberating on it even with some anguish, that we could not, would not, STAY and continue on with this individual, no matter how much we felt.

What is it within us, as human beings, what dynamics and factors would be at play, which would cause us to decide to stay?

Could you make that decision to stay or would your decision be to go, based on knowing or thinking you know who you are?

You just asked same question like 6 times...

Anyways..

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As a result of watching the film, I began wondering and reflecting on what it is within ourselves or within certain individuals which would compel them to stay with a person who they had just met or known for a little while, after having found out that they were going to die.

Life insurance, the dead person's will, money?...

Don't fool yourself by watching movies like that, sweetheart..

mannequin wrote:

You just asked same question like 6 times...

Anyways..

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As a result of watching the film, I began wondering and reflecting on what it is within ourselves or within certain individuals which would compel them to stay with a person who they had just met or known for a little while, after having found out that they were going to die.

Life insurance, the dead person's will, money?...

lol I was trying to be more emphatic and hyperbolic there.
Anyway, it goes a lot deeper than what you're suggesting. No one mentioned marriage nor life insurance. It wasn't on the table at all.

The question has validity - at least for me it does - from a psychological point of view.

But your answer IS one reason someone might stay. So, if that person didn't have much money, would you leave - having already fallen in love with this person?

Roll all of my so-called redundant questions into ONE and what else might you get - besides the greedy, financial one?


Don't fool yourself by watching movies like that, sweetheart..

Fooling myself? In which way? It was just a movie that led me to question myself under the same circumstances.
Let's not forget though that Life does imitate art.
And art can allow us to pose certain BIG questions to ourselves...to challenge us.

My response was relative to modern times. Do you see anything else in real life? If so, it's pretty rare...

The closest you will come to it thesedays is childhood love. They met as children, grew together and shared so much that they live for eachother until the very end, this is still taking place among grandparents.

Other than that, modernity has pretty much poluted everything...including that which came before it..

In the past, things were held together through an honuor and integrity, a vowed duty that one would have a great respect for, it was of meaning and substance, nothing was lost.

God is also a factor to consider, at that time.

But thesedays, Nahh not really..empathy might be a factor, slightly..

Love is rarely a factor thesedays. The environment often dictates how people behave. A self love is preached, with the idea of taking care of oneself, look out for number one, put myself first etc..in the context of individualism. Love is seen as weakness to ones personal strength of independence on the social front.

The days of rushing out of a coffee shop to get back to work, holding a bunch of papers and suddenly bumping into someone with the papers flying everywhere, and then bending down to pick them up your met with a charming handsome man who you later on fall in love with.. are over!

I'm afraid, darling, you're stuck with us ..

mannequin

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My response was relative to modern times. Do you see anything else in real life? If so, it's pretty rare...

What do you mean do I see something else in real life?

You can't imagine or envision someone or even yourself as falling in love and deciding to give a few months or even more to someone who has also fallen in love with you?
You wouldn't make the sacrifice, if it can even be seen as a sacrifice, (since there is that love there) to live in the moment with someone you love, to give them the gift of your life, your time, your energy, to give them what happiness and comfort and love they can have in the moments that are left to them?

Perhaps it comes down to how we value our own life and what ultimately gives it meaning.
Perhaps it also really comes down to how drawn we are to that person, how attractive they are to us. Do they hold that much attraction for us that we are willing to not count the cost which we would probably feel afterwards?
Do we have the capacity for compassion and empathy that it would take to be with that person?
Do we have the inner strength to deal with the reality of that person's life?

What else is there in real life? Loving someone and helping them face their own death in a dignified way -
When life and death and love come together - is there anything more profound when it comes to those important questions?

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The closest you will come to it thesedays is childhood love. They met as children, grew together and shared so much that they live for eachother until the very end, this is still taking place among grandparents.

I can see that.

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Other than that, modernity has pretty much poluted everything...including that which came before it..

So you see no signs of humanity at its best - only at its worse?

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In the past, things were held together through an honuor and integrity, a vowed duty that one would have a great respect for, it was of meaning and substance, nothing was lost.

I don't believe that anything is ever lost. Everything which touches us becomes a part of us. It's not the same, it's transformed but it's still there somewhere.

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God is also a factor to consider, at that time.

We don't have to bring a god into it. God can be the other side of that coin, that miserable and tragic side - in the same of god.
Love isn't about god - love is about people.

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But thesedays, Nahh not really..empathy might be a factor, slightly..

So, if you were deying in a few months, would you be able to accept the gift of someone else's life mingled with yours for a few months - if you loved that person or would you be so noble as to send him or her away?

mannequin wrote:

Love is rarely a factor thesedays. The environment often dictates how people behave. A self love is preached, with the idea of taking care of oneself, look out for number one, put myself first etc..in the context of individualism. Love is seen as weakness to ones personal strength of independence on the social front.

What does environment have to do with anything? I wasn't speaking of marriage in the first place. I was speaking of having the capacity to be able to stay with someone whom we have fallen  in love with and who loves us - knowing that your time with that person is short.

I think that many would probably weigh the pros and cons of that and I agree with you that many would probably take the self-love approach - the road more traveled so to speak. The longer that person has to live would make the decision more difficult and meaningful perhaps.
I suppose that one could only do this if they've actually fallen in love and are deeply attracted to the other person - and is able to see the real meaning and gift in doing it.

Planning for the future does have value but I suppose that if one can see the "real" meaning and beauty of living in the presence moment - and I think that this is what it is about - that person BEING in that moment with someone - intuiting that this is all there is - that long moment of two, three, six months or even a year.

Perhaps it is the person who has the understanding that LIVING IN THE PRESENCE MOMENT IS ALL that WE HAVE who would be capable of doing this.

Many sacrifice themselves in abusive relationships where there is no love - just fear and dependency and a need to hold on out of a false security or for whatever reason but...

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Love is seen as weakness to ones personal strength of independence on the social front

That so-called strength that is opposed to love can also be seen as narcissism and hedonism.
Of course, if one doesn't feel called to such a thing couldn't do it and still does it - well, I'm not sure if THAT would be self-abuse or idiocy.

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What do you mean do I see something else in real life?

What do you see on a day to day basis?..Not what you want to see, but what you REALLY see?

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You can't imagine or envision someone or even yourself as falling in love and deciding to give a few months or even more to someone who has also fallen in love with you?
You wouldn't make the sacrifice, if it can even be seen as a sacrifice, (since there is that love there) to live in the moment with someone you love, to give them the gift of your life, your time, your energy, to give them what happiness and comfort and love they can have in the moments that are left to them?

This almost brought a tear to my eye, very touching..

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Perhaps it comes down to how we value our own life and what ultimately gives it meaning.

Yes. Every time.

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What else is there in real life? Loving someone and helping them face their own death in a dignified way -
When life and death and love come together - is there anything more profound when it comes to those important questions?

This post has female written all over it.

Love is an emotion, generally displayed in the context of a strong attraction or an a very strong attachment.  There are loads of emotions. You can specifically place love on a pedestal if you wish, but it remains as an emotion which has an objective value no more bigger or less than any other emotion..

Take the modern retards for example, they will do this with the emotion of happiness. "I just want to be happy" they cry. As if that was ever possible in a permanent context. It is unrealistic to think you are going to be happy all the time. There has never been a time where you have just been happy constantly, it has been interfered with by anger, sadness, jealousy, hate etc etc..Perhaps not every single emotions, but most of them for the most part..and it will continue like this..until the end. Of course, nobody wants this because it fucks up the dreams and the fairy tale endings, so they choose to hope, wish and pray for the day to come, "one day things will change" etc

Do you need to be in love or to love in order to exist, sweetheart?

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So you see no signs of humanity at its best - only at its worse?

Humanity IS at it's best, ..something you're failing to realize. This is the age of fairness and equality, where love is pushed into the direction of individualism, because to love another person would result in comprise and sacrifice, even if it's just on a very minimal ego level is consider something negative, a threat even.. Loving somebody would only threaten everything people are taught or conditioned regarding self preservation.

Humanity is a concept, a pretence that includes unrealistic ideals that weaken the organism, especially in modern times.. It is not some wonderful collective that we are all apart of naturally...

When somebody points this clear truth out, other people will automatically think and call them negative..it's not negative, but realistic..They do this because they have lived sheltered lives..either they are conditioned, regurgitate and oblivious OR they understand the bigger picture and it frightens them or.. "humbles" them, to the point where concepts like humanism, humanitarianism ..etc appeal to them..

Out of curiosity, what do you think I would do to you if i was in your house right now?

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We don't have to bring a god into it

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Are you using your brain, darling?

Nobody said God was love.

What I was saying was, in the discussion of love from the past to now, is that God was an incredibly great factor, if not the most greatest factor of all, "for god's sake", "for the love OF God"..

Are you confused?

The past was incredibly religious..It needed to be. A great factor to love was fear, it motivated people in certain ways, Emotions invoke emotions, in this case, the love was GENUINELY expressed...

In real life darling people are not walking around altruistically loving people..

Tell me about real life?

Tell me about how negative I am, or how hurt I must be, or afraid even.. if only I just loved people..

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God can be the other side of that coin, that miserable and tragic side - in the same of god.

No, misery and tragedy is apart of life. Always has been, always will be. It's necessary to development.

Do you think people were constantly killing each other in the past in the name of God?

Has robotic atheism made you simple, hun?

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What does environment have to do with anything? I wasn't speaking of marriage in the first place. I was speaking of having the capacity to be able to stay with someone whom we have fallen  in love with and who loves us - knowing that your time with that person is short.

Of course the environment has something to do with it! The modern environment is of a fickle whimsical nature, without the laws to create any stability, not just in the married context, but in the mental and emotional..The environment reduces that capacity naturally, especially in modern times...it has always been like that, this is very reason why virtues, principles, morals and vows exist to create a consistency allowing civilization to exist.. "'till death do we part" governed by serious consequences if violated because attraction and attachment are not enough..

These human emotions, such as love, had to regulated because they make the humans do all kinds crazy shit.."crazy in love"..it is not some wonderful beautiful gift one can have for another...there's more to it than that, anxiety, fears, desperations, jealously, obsessions, insecurities, limerence..etc

Are you following sweetie?

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Planning for the future does have value but I suppose that if one can see the "real" meaning and beauty of living in the presence moment - and I think that this is what it is about - that person BEING in that moment with someone - intuiting that this is all there is - that long moment of two, three, six months or even a year.

Are you ten years old?

Are you searching for somebody to consume you, or to consume?

Do you feel dead, darling?

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Perhaps it is the person who has the understanding that LIVING IN THE PRESENCE MOMENT IS ALL that WE HAVE who would be capable of doing this.

A present moment or a long moment...?

Are you struggling?

Interesting movie, Arc. I will have to check it out sometime.

I do believe that this kind of love exists, but only among rare souls. It's romantic love, in the purest sense of the word.

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What is it within us, as human beings, what dynamics and factors would be at play, which would cause us to decide to stay?

Could you make that decision to stay or would your decision be to go, based on knowing or thinking you know who you are?

A very intense love would cause the person to stay.

I would stay. Fidelity and altruism ( altruism for loved ones ) are in my nature. Why would I want to leave the woman I love in her few remaining days? If I truly loved this woman, I would desire to be with her until the end, to comfort her, relish the last moments together, and celebrate life.

What's a better way to go out, than making love on the beach, as the sun is setting. Reaching climax together during her last breath, whispering in her ear that I love her very much, as she transitions over to the euphoria of the near death experience, the beatific vision. The perfect farewell gift for a dying lover...

Yes, one can say that there is that element within it, a good part of it. But I wouldn't say in the "purest" sense.
I don't personally feel that anything good and positive which we do can be said to be [purely] altrustic as there is a return on it, but I would also say that within this scenario there is also a lot of altruism though tinged with an imperfect humanity, wouldn't you say?
Bats are altruistic because they allow other more weak and feeble bats to feed off their blood. At the same time, it is also for the survival of their species.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you here, Erik, altruism is not ONLY for loved ones. It could be an act toward a stranger too. Basically, altruism is given without thought to self.  But it does work in this scenario.

What if her remaining days were months to come? Would you remain faithful to her, would you try to heal her in ways?

Erik wrote:

What's a better way to go out, than making love on the beach, as the sun is setting. Reaching climax together during her last breath, whispering in her ear that I love her very much, as she transitions over to the euphoria of the near death experience, the beatific vision. The perfect farewell gift for a dying lover...

lol You certainly are a romantic, aren't you, Erik? Remember, your woman is dying so she may not have the strength to make love in her final moments -- she many not even have the strength to make love with you for weeks and weeks before that - but the beach setting is a wonderful one.

Is it possible that that perfect farewell gift is one which you wanted to give to yourself?

What if, when she knew that she was dying, and did not want to subject you to that, she asked you to respect her wishes and to leave and to never come back? She loved you greatly and in her mind, she was trying to protect you. What would you do or say to her then- especially since you would have to forego your fine farewell? silent

mannequin

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What do you mean do I see something else in real life?

What do you see on a day to day basis?..Not what you want to see, but what you REALLY see?

For myself, I would have probably worded it: "...not what you do not want to see".
I see the beauty of the universe, I see people going about their daily lives, many not even having a clue of what they are doing, I see people struggling - struggling greatly, in great pain and anguish, being tortured, trying to hold onto some hope. I see a sense of powerlessness in trying to hold it all together, I see where love at times, or often, does not really help at all. I see some hope for the future, but at the same time, I see more struggling, more hopelessness, powerlessness. I also see great will and inner strength despite these things and on and on....

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You can't imagine or envision someone or even yourself as falling in love and deciding to give a few months or even more to someone who has also fallen in love with you?

You wouldn't make the sacrifice, if it can even be seen as a sacrifice, (since there is that love there) to live in the moment with someone you love, to give them the gift of your life, your time, your energy, to give them what happiness and comfort and love they can have in the moments that are left to them?

This almost brought a tear to my eye, very touching..

Not wanting to make a [donkey] of myself, I wouldn't begin to assume that you were being sincere here since you would appear to be quite jaded (to say the least lol) ~~ so, were you serious or not here. I almost feel like I'm stepping out on a limb which is about to crash to the ground since I think I would have liked it to bring a tear to your eye but I don't like to indulge in wishing thinking.

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Perhaps it comes down to how we value our own life and what ultimately gives it meaning.

Yes. Every time.

Yes, and in knowing this, in understanding this, we come to a better understanding of the value of other lives ~~ at least that's the way I look at it.
No, then again, I might be wrong with the above statement. Let me clarify here. That would ultimately depend on the kind of individual someone is, I think.

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What else is there in real life? Loving someone and helping them face their own death in a dignified way -
When life and death and love come together - is there anything more profound when it comes to those important questions?

This post has female written all over it.

Well, that isn't to say that THAT is the most profound thing to everyone but I think that it is greatly important and when it comes right down to it - there is life, there is death and there is helping someone go through that door...

I also rather think that when men make statements like you just did - this post has female written all over it - men tend to downgrade themselves and don't understand that things like love, compassion, empathy are human things, not gender things. There are ugly human beings but at the same time there are those others - I'm speaking of men now who have such a great capacity to love and to experience compassion, empathy, etc. Why would you denigrate yourself like that?

And before you go and say that I am being an emotional woman, don't even think of going there - I am being completely unemotional (almost) this is based on intelligent observation of men.

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Love is an emotion, generally displayed in the context of a strong attraction or an a very strong attachment. There are loads of emotions. You can specifically place love on a pedestal if you wish, but it remains as an emotion which has an objective value no more bigger or less than any other emotion..

True, love is an emotion - and the feeling of being and love and loving is comprised of the chemicals within our brains but we are able at times to transcend those chemicals and love becomes much more than just an emotion. Real love can be also fiercely detached and determined.

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which has an objective value no more bigger or less than any other emotion

I don't go along with that unless I'm not understanding you here.
Give me an example.

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Take the modern retards for example, they will do this with the emotion of happiness. "I just want to be happy" they cry. As if that was ever possible in a permanent context. It is unrealistic to think you are going to be happy all the time.

What is it with some of you philosophers and the word "retard". You seem to thrive on it.
But why say "modern"? People have always been like this. I find nothing wrong with trying to being happy and being happy but I do agree that happiness is elusive. It can't always be. But what are we to be - followers of what's his name - Schopenhauer, being pessimists and thinking "oh lo is me" all of the time. Happiness, real happiness, not narcissism and hedonism, is conducive to good mental health and to wanting to go on living.

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There has never been a time where you have just been happy constantly, it has been interfered with by anger, sadness, jealousy, hate etc etc..Perhaps not every single emotions, but most of them for the most part..and it will continue like this..until the end. Of course, nobody wants this because it fucks up the dreams and the fairy tale endings, so they choose to hope, wish and pray for the day to come, "one day things will change" etc

True for the most part. You are speaking to the choir here.
I find nothing necessarily wrong with hoping (though I don't so much like to hope, except in small degrees sometimes) wishing is the same as hoping and so is praying. I don't usually pray unless I am so completely powerless that I cannot help myself and even as I am doing it, I am cringing inside for being so human. lol

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Do you need to be in love or to love in order to exist, sweetheart?

That's a really good question. I think that the answer to it is a NO though at times I do feel it's the icing on the cake, so to speak. What I personally do need though is to feel something, to be inspired - I don't need to feel happy or sad but feeling is important. I'm not a rock though there have been times when I would have preferred to be a rock - like Quasimoto said - "I wish I could have been made of stone, like thee". I have felt that many times.

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Humanity IS at it's best, ..something you're failing to realize. This is the age of fairness and equality, where love is pushed into the direction of individualism, because to love another person would result in comprise and sacrifice, even if it's just on a very minimal ego level is consider something negative, a threat even.. Loving somebody would only threaten everything people are taught or conditioned regarding self preservation.

I would hate to think that humanity is at its best - at least ALWAYS at its best. What I mean is that I don't see that all of the time though I do see particular moments in human history and in life when humanity or much of humanity is at its best but it has also been at its worse, while at the same time, there has been an intermingling of the worse of humanity and the best of it.

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This is the age of fairness and equality, where love is pushed into the direction of individualism, because to love another person would result in comprise and sacrifice, even if it's just on a very minimal ego level is consider something negative, a threat even..

Yes, I do see this but again, this is also an individual thing. Not every human is out for their own self.

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Humanity is a concept, a pretence that includes unrealistic ideals that weaken the organism, especially in modern times.. It is not some wonderful collective that we are all apart of naturally...

Humanity is comprised of all kinds of human beings.
Perhaps there are 2 collectives - one is called the herd lol and the other is composed of human beings who strive to evolve, to become more, to transcend their animal natures, to become more aware and have more consciousness. I don't really know if there is hope for us - we might end it all by one stupid mistake. But we can't through the baby out with the bathwater.

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When somebody points this clear truth out, other people will automatically think and call them negative..it's not negative, but realistic..

Yes, it's true but in the context of a greater larger picture.

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Out of curiosity, what do you think I would do to you if i was in your house right now?

I couldn't begin to answer that question but based solely on the question, you wouldn't get there at all.lol
But pray tell, what do you think you would do?

.......................

I'll end this here for now as I've run out of time but I will continue it later on.

Let me revise that a bit...

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to transcend their animal natures,

Not to totally transcend their animal natures because there would not be much fun in doing that. I tend to think that we also need that animal nature within us - we just need to restrain it - not kill its spirit but to have it for the most part be in harmony with our human natures.

But we also have to understand when we need to let it loose, to do its work to preserve us, to allow us to feel and to sense things in a much stronger way - like a wolf or a dragon. lol

Arc wrote:

Yes, one can say that there is that element within it, a good part of it. But I wouldn't say in the "purest" sense.
I don't personally feel that anything good and positive which we do can be said to be [purely] altrustic as there is a return on it, but I would also say that within this scenario there is also a lot of altruism though tinged with an imperfect humanity, wouldn't you say?
Bats are altruistic because they allow other more weak and feeble bats to feed off their blood. At the same time, it is also for the survival of their species.

The use of the word *pure* is a hyperbole. What I meant is that that kind of love is the closest to the romantic ideal of love.

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Unless I'm misunderstanding you here, Erik, altruism is not ONLY for loved ones. It could be an act toward a stranger too. Basically, altruism is given without thought to self.  But it does work in this scenario.

Yes, it could be extended to strangers, of course. But it will be more near-and-dear for family/mates.

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What if her remaining days were months to come? Would you remain faithful to her, would you try to heal her in ways?

Of course I would! I'm a man of grit, baby; I endure long and perilous adventures, like Odysseus. I would remain faithful and at her side providing comfort; alleviating her of the fear of death. Perhaps, I would describe it to her in poetic terms, as a divine slumber, or as the tranquility of dreamless sleep.

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lol You certainly are a romantic, aren't you, Erik? Remember, your woman is dying so she may not have the strength to make love in her final moments -- she many not even have the strength to make love with you for weeks and weeks before that - but the beach setting is a wonderful one.

Haha! I forgot about the frailty of her condition as she is heading towards death....I suppose I idealized the scenario a bit too much, no?  

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Is it possible that that perfect farewell gift is one which you wanted to give to yourself?

What if, when she knew that she was dying, and did not want to subject you to that, she asked you to respect her wishes and to leave and to never come back? She loved you greatly and in her mind, she was trying to protect you. What would you do or say to her then- especially since you would have to forego your fine farewell?

I would reassure her that I would strongly desire to be at her side in her last days...that just leaving her all to herself would make me suffer even more...

Here is the thing: people today have forgotten about commitment! People are so accustomed to upgrades in modernity, the latest trend --- " Out with the old - in with the new ". Wonder why marriages don't last long these days? It has to do with our febrile ethos, our virtueless culture. Back in the days of yore, there was honor and nobility. People don't give a shit about honor, dedication, endurance, perseverance and all that jazz now. This degenerate spirit of ephemerality and constant upgrades has spilled over into romance.....A man who desires to stick with his dying wife till the end, instead of giving into his cowardly feelings of self-pity, is seen as bizarre!

To me, someone who abandons their lover, in such a situation, is a despicable and pusillanimous piece of vermin.

Erik,

Check out yesterday at 9:36 am? What do you see?!!!!

Look well.

Arcturus Descending wrote:

Erik,

Check out yesterday at 9:36 am? What do you see?!!!!

Look well.

Haha! That gave me a good laugh!

I was wondering what happened to my entry, when I first entered it....now I realize that I accidentally erased your message and entered mine into your post!

Uncanny at first sight, no?

P.S. I re-edited your post, fixed it. Look!

Don't ever again mess with my words Erik or I will hunt you down and....

At first I was going to type in [insert any phrase here] but decided against it, knowing you.
Hmmmm

What happened to my very last post here? I mentioned that there must have been some kind of a glitch there - since your response was posted in A D's account - not in your account Erik. You could have only erased my words and put in your response within your account, true?

You ought to check that out.

Arcturus Descending wrote:

What happened to my very last post here? I mentioned that there must have been some kind of a glitch there - since your response was posted in A D's account - not in your account Erik. You could have only erased my words and put in your response within your account, true?

You ought to check that out.

Yeah, I can't log into your account, as I don't know your password; but I can edit your posts, because I'm the administrator.

I must have accidentally clicked on the " edit post " button, instead of the " quote " button...

Erik,

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Yeah, I can't log into your account, as I don't know your password; but I can edit your posts, because I'm the administrator.

I know that you didn't "edit" my posts BUT do you feel that a "heads up" is important if/when you were about to edit someone's post? I'm not speaking necessarily of mine.

Couldn't that been seen as kind of an abuse of power ~~ if someone doesn't like our words, our thoughts, they are deleted? This has nothing to do with what happened - it is just something that came to me in these moments.

Mannequin - Part II

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We don't have to bring a god into it

Are you using your brain, darling?

If I wasn't, I couldn't be in here typing this. But I will admit to being biased - not about a god but about our version and viewpoint of this god.

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Nobody said God was love.

What I was saying was, in the discussion of love from the past to now, is that God was an incredibly great factor, if not the most greatest factor of all, "for god's sake", "for the love OF God"..

Those above phrases you just put in quotes mean nothing. People utter them all of the time not even realizing what they are saying. But you may be right - in the past, they may have meant something more.

Aside from that, what I meant by what I said is that many cruel and horrific things have been done IN THE NAME OF GOD.

I agree with you that God was a great factor in the lives of many.

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Are you confused?

At times I am but at this moment, no I am not. If I become confused, I will ask for you to explain to me what you mean.

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The past was incredibly religious..It needed to be. A great factor to love was fear, it motivated people in certain ways, Emotions invoke emotions,

You don't see humanity as being incredibly religious in this day and age? I do. Sometimes it's beneficial and sometimes it's chaotic and destructive.

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A great factor to love was fear

For example?

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in this case, the love was GENUINELY expressed...

For example?

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In real life darling people are not walking around altruistically loving people..

No, not in all parts of "real" life they aren't but we can't say that no one is. There are still a great many altruistic people. Can you see this?

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Tell me about real life?Tell me about how negative I am, or how hurt I must be, or afraid even.. if only I just loved people..

lol I can't do that. Human beings are much more complicated creaturs than for problems to be solved simply by loving others.

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Tell me about real life?

Can the entire sea be put into a little cup - any size cup?
Talking about real life wouldn't even be equal to explaining the sea and everything in it.
But i did give you a glimmer of what I see as real life in the other post.

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God can be the other side of that coin, that miserable and tragic side - in the name of god.

No, misery and tragedy is apart of life. Always has been, always will be. It's necessary to development.

I know this. I see it and I've experienced it. I am not blind and I pay attention.
I suppose that when I mention god, I must also mention humanity's illusions and thoughts of this god. The concept of a god has been BOTH a curse and a blessing to humanity.

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Do you think people were constantly killing each other in the past in the name of God?

Weren't they? They believed in certain things so those beliefs about god and what god wanted lead them to certain behavior. As we believe, we do.


[quote]

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Has robotic atheism made you simple, hun?

I'm not an atheist - I'm agnostic.
"Hun"? How did you know that I am a decedant of Attila?

What is robotic atheism?
Simple? I'm not even simple when I'm asleep.

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Of course the environment has something to do with it! The modern environment is of a fickle whimsical nature, without the laws to create any stability, not just in the married context, but in the mental and emotional..The environment reduces that capacity naturally, especially in modern times...it has always been like that, this is very reason why virtues, principles, morals and vows exist to create a consistency allowing civilization to exist.. "'till death do we part" governed by serious consequences if violated because attraction and attachment are not enough..

Take a breath.
I agree with what you say here for the most part.
At first, I misunderstood your use of the word "environment".

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These human emotions, such as love, had to regulated because they make the humans do all kinds crazy shit.."crazy in love"..it is not some wonderful beautiful gift one can have for another...there's more to it than that, anxiety, fears, desperations, jealously, obsessions, insecurities, limerence..etc

Love can't really be regulated, except through one's own reason and intelligence. What passes for love by many if not most is just a betrayal of the chemicals in our brains. So I'd say that self-awareness, reflection, seeing things as they are, justice and fairness is what would be called for to regulate these sometimes insane emotions.

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it is not some wonderful beautiful gift one can have for another...there's more to it than that, anxiety, fears, desperations, jealously, obsessions, insecurities, limerence..etc

But yet love, "real" love can be seen as a beautiful gift, a wonderful gift. This is not a romantic notion to me either. But I'm speaking of love which is more transcendent and deeper at the same time than romantic love. The other emotions you mentioned are obsessions and insecurites.

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Are you following sweetie?

I'm not your sweetie. Yes, I am following you here.

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Planning for the future does have value but I suppose that if one can see the "real" meaning and beauty of living in the presence moment - and I think that this is what it is about - that person BEING in that moment with someone - intuiting that this is all there is - that long moment of two, three, six months or even a year.


Are you ten years old?

So, what are you saying here? That what I said above has no validity, no true even objective meaning?
Where do you live, Mannequin - somewhere in the far-off future? Is that where your mind usually dwells? If that is so, you are not here with yourself.

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Are you searching for somebody to consume you, or to consume?

Not really - at least not as much as many are. Why, because there are others things in this universe that I am capable of loving, other things which I love, worship, like the stars, the ocean waves, et cetera - others things which move me beyond belief and allow me to have those wonderful "aha" moments.
But of course, I would be a fool not to also admit that having love in one's life is a gift, depending on the relationship.

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Do you feel dead, darling?

On the contrary, sometimes I feel too alive and there are moments as I said that I would wish to be a rock.

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Perhaps it is the person who has the understanding that LIVING IN THE PRESENCE MOMENT IS ALL that WE HAVE who would be capable of doing this.

A present moment or a long moment...?

Time is relative.
An enjoyable moment could seem as fleeting as a second but an agonizing moment can seem almost like a lifetime.

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Are you struggling?

Am I alive? I struggle often but not at every moment. Sometimes one just has to let go, to detach - as difficult as that may be.
What about you?

Careful, mannequin --- if you keep up this bravado and verbal abuse towards her, she will become obsessed, fall head-over-heals in love with you, and start stalking you - just like she did with Jr Wells, when he displayed indifference and a nasty attitude towards her.

This substantiates my earlier entry about female psychology...

Erik wrote:

Careful, mannequin --- if you keep up this bravado and verbal abuse towards her, she will become obsessed, fall head-over-heals in love with you, and start stalking you - just like she did with Jr Wells, when he displayed indifference and a nasty attitude towards her.

This substantiates my earlier entry about female psychology...

Erik,

Were you drinking when you wrote this?
In the first place, I didn't detect any bravado or verbal abuse on his part towards me - but you can point it out to me if you so choose.

In the second place, you little dweeb of an Erik, you - I will NOT fall head over heels with him or anyone else!!

In the third place, I was not stalking Wells. As you very well know, I was simply trying to see if he was someone that I knew in the past. Wells got a bit over the top and I might say he needs to redefine his definitions and sensations of certain words.

Wells' attitude wasn't so much nasty nor actually indifferent to me as it was wimpy and a bit delusional.

You know nothing about female psychology or human psychology.
Now that you've managed to get my Irish/Italian temper up, well, we'll just have to see how things go.

This is not a good way to have friends and to influence people.

Just what were you dealing with when you wrote this?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arcturus Rising wrote:

Erik,

Were you drinking when you wrote this?

What do you mean by drinking? Don't you think that's kind of vague? I mean, drinking can mean something completely different than what we are accustomed to thinking of... Don't you think you should be more specific? Just saying...

Arcturus Smiling wrote:

In the first place, I didn't detect any bravado or verbal abuse on his part towards me - but you can point it out to me if you so choose.

You're intuition must be very dull then, Arcky....He was verbally raping you....

Arcturus Frowning wrote:

In the second place, you little dweeb of an Erik, you - I will NOT fall head over heels with him or anyone else!!

Women say one thing, but in practice, do the complete opposite....

Arcturus Stalking wrote:

In the third place, I was not stalking Wells. As you very well know, I was simply trying to see if he was someone that I knew in the past. Wells got a bit over the top and I might say he needs to redefine his definitions and sensations of certain words.

Yeah, sure...whatever you say, pal. I don't buy it. I mean, let's keep it real, Snookie; Jr Wells played you like a fiddle, the whole " indifferent, bad-boy " game --- and it worked like a charm! You became obsessed! I know it hurts to admit the truth sometimes, but be strong...

Arcturus Raging wrote:

Now that you've managed to get my Irish/Italian temper up, well, we'll just have to see how things go.

This is not a good way to have friends and to influence people.

Just what were you dealing with when you wrote this?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice combination ( Irish/Italian ).

What was I thinking? Well, I was thinking of recognized patterns of behavior on your part and on part of the female populace in general.

Have some coffee, little Arc. Cool off a bit.